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In Finland, saunas make nudity a non-issue for church members.
Goodlife Offline
#1 Posted : Thursday, January 22, 2015 1:46:06 PM(UTC)
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I thought this might be the best spot for this post. I was discussing with a good friend of mine about our sauna and how much we love it. He told me an experience he had while on a business trip to Finland. He was with an LDS brother there and apparently staying at his home or he was invited to dinner or something along those lines. And as they were traveling to his house he invited my friend to use his sauna. He asked my friend if he would be willing to be naked in his sauna. He then told my friend that Boyd K Packer had been to his house and he was naked in the sauna. Well, my friend figured he would be naked in the sauna too.

I have another friend who served his mission in Finland and he said that when they got off the plane they took them to the mission home, got them naked in the sauna, and then put them to bed for some much needed rest. And going to the sauna was something they did whenever possible after that.

Here's a great account of a HP group sauna night in Finland: http://bycommonconsent.c...gh-priest-sauna-night/.
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LazerusLong on 1/22/2015(UTC)
RetiredOkie Offline
#2 Posted : Thursday, January 22, 2015 4:38:03 PM(UTC)
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I do not believe any of these were mixed gender. As stated in previous forum, GA swam nude together in their private pool/ gym or whatever they called it.

I have sat nude in jacuzzi with EQ president after racket ball match. I do not believe nudity among men ever was a big deal at any time.

I have no doubt that Finish families enjoy nude sauna together LDS or not.

Nudity among mixed gender is an American malady most of the balance of the world does not consider a problem
retiredokie

LazerusLong Offline
#3 Posted : Thursday, February 9, 2017 5:12:31 PM(UTC)

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In a conversation on the FB group, this article was mentioned where a man talks about living in various wards around the world.
Quote:
... American members tend to equate nudity with immorality. Many Europeans do not. Finns, for example, frequent their saunas as a family, in the buff, until their children are old. Church groups have sauna activities which, while not mixed, are nonetheless naked. We once had an Elders' quorum sauna at our home in Finland, and there we were, priesthood brethren, standing
around in only our God-givens, laughing, joking, and talking about gospel topics. I never suggested a sauna party in the BYU 44th Ward.


check it out here.
The ways of God, government, & girls are all mysterious & it is not given to mortal man to understand them. - LazarusLong
1 user thanked LazerusLong for this useful post.
MatthewW on 2/13/2017(UTC)
GBSmith Offline
#4 Posted : Thursday, February 9, 2017 11:13:50 PM(UTC)
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I just put in a sauna but it's only a 2-3 person size, a little small for our high priests group.
rjmma Offline
#5 Posted : Friday, February 10, 2017 9:23:53 AM(UTC)

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just was reading this before I saw this topic...

http://www.huffingtonpos...keep-your-brain-healthy/
Chameleon104 Offline
#6 Posted : Friday, February 17, 2017 8:30:47 AM(UTC)
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I lived in Germany for eight years and have seen how German LDS folk handle social nudity with no issues. The Elders Quorum Pres would hold an Elders meeting at the local sauna and LDS families enjoyed social nudity with the rest of the village on Friday nights at the sauna. Only Americans would take offense at any of that, sad.


Nudist Families are Forever!
Mormondad Offline
#7 Posted : Saturday, February 18, 2017 2:24:03 PM(UTC)

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Interesting, while American LDS took offense no statements from church headquarters condemning it. I'm quite sure some busy body has more than once brought it up to church headquarters so they are certainly aware of it there.
"Modesty died when clothes were born."
---Mark Twain
RetiredOkie Offline
#8 Posted : Saturday, February 18, 2017 5:50:02 PM(UTC)
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'Would take" is not "took", therefore, the supposition that some americans did take offense and may have reported may not be correct.

Interesting how a statement can be interpreted by different people in many ways. Probably why the world is in conflict all the time.

This past week an aquantance invited me to attend a church he is to give a talk at Sunday evening. I asked what text and bible translation he would be using for his talk. i had never heard of the version he said ...so looked it up .. . I found that there are over 100 english bible translations/versions. Add to that all the foreign language translations ... well i compared a few ..english, spanish , latin.. my conclusion was ..... Who really knows what was written originally?

Perhaps Only the original writer has a good chance of being correct in remembering what was meant at the time of writing.

Now, having taken up some space on this forum thread posting , i close to allow you time to contemplate what i posted while i confuse myself with the remembrance of the post.

( it has been a slow day)

BTW, i have edited this post several times already .... i wonder how many times i am yet to change it
retiredokie

Al_M Offline
#9 Posted : Saturday, February 18, 2017 7:24:49 PM(UTC)
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Mormondad wrote:
Interesting, while American LDS took offense no statements from church headquarters condemning it. I'm quite sure some busy body has more than once brought it up to church headquarters so they are certainly aware of it there.


Why should HQ be aware? Why does it matter?

If you want to (figuratively) eat meat sacrificed to idols, you need to have a good faith based reason and you need to do it in a way that doesn't become a stumbling block for either you or the weak. You cannot look to an "authority" for your reason. The scriptures are clear enough, you can't be involved in adultery, fornication or uncleanness or lasciviousness. (There was plenty of that in the pagan temples where meat was sacrificed to idols.) But I don't think that is completely enough. There has to be a positive affirming reason for your eating of meat sacrificed to idols.

But if you don't want to be ruled by legalism don't look for legalistic rulings.

Mormondad Offline
#10 Posted : Saturday, February 18, 2017 8:29:57 PM(UTC)

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I think you miss understand me.


I do not seek legalism from HQ or otherwise. I just noted that in spite of the fact that surely they have gotten requests or advisements from well meaning busy bodies over time about such practices there is still silence on the matter from the church senior leadership. Sometimes silence speaks volumes. I doubt we'll ever see any form of endorsement on social nudity. In our current culture and environment it won't happen as it would be paramount to opening up interpretations to do many things that are sinful. In a time where society might be more open to non-sexual nudity any such announcement will not be needed.
"Modesty died when clothes were born."
---Mark Twain
Mr Moonella Offline
#11 Posted : Monday, February 20, 2017 3:06:27 PM(UTC)

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Chameleon104 wrote:
I lived in Germany for eight years and have seen how German LDS folk handle social nudity with no issues. The Elders Quorum Pres would hold an Elders meeting at the local sauna and LDS families enjoyed social nudity with the rest of the village on Friday nights at the sauna. Only Americans would take offense at any of that, sad.


Thanks for this post - I find it very interesting to hear how Latter-day Saints in different parts of the world have different attitudes to nudity. When you say that German LDS families would go to the sauna, presumably this is mixed-gender. Was this accepted practice among German Latter-day Saints, or was this just a couple of families doing something which other German saints would find unusual?
Mormondad Offline
#12 Posted : Tuesday, February 21, 2017 6:41:32 PM(UTC)

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Mr Moonella wrote:
Chameleon104 wrote:
I lived in Germany for eight years and have seen how German LDS folk handle social nudity with no issues. The Elders Quorum Pres would hold an Elders meeting at the local sauna and LDS families enjoyed social nudity with the rest of the village on Friday nights at the sauna. Only Americans would take offense at any of that, sad.


Thanks for this post - I find it very interesting to hear how Latter-day Saints in different parts of the world have different attitudes to nudity. When you say that German LDS families would go to the sauna, presumably this is mixed-gender. Was this accepted practice among German Latter-day Saints, or was this just a couple of families doing something which other German saints would find unusual?


While I have not personally been to a German sauna, I have been told by a friend who is a frequent visiter to Europe, that nudity is required in all saunas. My understanding is that most are mixed gender facilities. Finish saunas are mixed gender, although mostly just families and friends, otherwise they may be gender specific outside of family and close friends. Most changing rooms for gymnasiums or swimming pools are mixed gender outside of the US military bases. So if you went to a swimming pool with a german LDS family you everyone would change to their swim suits in the same room. Germans generally don't think anything of it, whike most Americans would be uncomfortable.
"Modesty died when clothes were born."
---Mark Twain
RetiredOkie Offline
#13 Posted : Wednesday, February 22, 2017 1:21:02 AM(UTC)
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i find it odd that my German ancestry did not retain any pro attitudes of nudity after immigration to the USA. my family came from Germany post civil war. most all of my G grandparents were born in Germany, grandparents here in USA. G grandparents spoke german as first language, little English. Grandparents were bilingual. Parents attended church services in German language until WWII. I have a "Hogans Heroes" grasp of German.

Any way, my ..all German family is most prudish. I had never seen any of my family nude except my two brothers, never cousins, never mother , once and rare time dad, never grandparents. all but one of my G grandparents died before i was started school. My grand mothers wore dresses down to lower calf length their whole lives, as did the only G grandmother I knew. Old photos show only faces and hands.

So where did the USA attitude come from? Has the German attitude changed over the past 150 years to be more pro nudity?
What has caused the divide in attitudes? when did it occur? Why did USA go pro prude and europe go pro nude?

Native Americans centuries ago wore a loin cloth in summer, children went nude until adults i understand. So why be we prude in USA? ..Since the original civilization was dress or undress for the season, seems USA should be nude not prude. .. all very strange to me .... but maybe i am strange and all others normal.
retiredokie

Roamer Offline
#14 Posted : Wednesday, February 22, 2017 10:38:53 AM(UTC)
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RetiredOkie wrote:
i find it odd that my German ancestry did not retain any pro attitudes of nudity after immigration to the USA. my family came from Germany post civil war. most all of my G grandparents were born in Germany, grandparents here in USA. G grandparents spoke german as first language, little English. Grandparents were bilingual. Parents attended church services in German language until WWII. I have a "Hogans Heroes" grasp of German.

Any way, my ..all German family is most prudish. I had never seen any of my family nude except my two brothers, never cousins, never mother , once and rare time dad, never grandparents. all but one of my G grandparents died before i was started school. My grand mothers wore dresses down to lower calf length their whole lives, as did the only G grandmother I knew. Old photos show only faces and hands.

So where did the USA attitude come from? Has the German attitude changed over the past 150 years to be more pro nudity?
What has caused the divide in attitudes? when did it occur? Why did USA go pro prude and europe go pro nude?


The Germans had the FKK thing that started at the close of the 19th Century, which would have post-dated the departure of your German ancestors(and mine).

Also compounding things is that for turn of the century(19th to 20th century) America, there was a particularly deliberate effort on the part of many Germans to "integrate" into American culture. My Great-Grandparents actually banished my Grandmother and her siblings from the house around the age of 4 and shipped them off to some English speaking relatives until they'd developed "a sufficient command of the English language." After which, they(her parents) deliberately avoided using German around their children. Of course, her childhood was during WWI, so that may have been an additional factor. My Grandmother never learned how to speak German.

Quote:
Native Americans centuries ago wore a loin cloth in summer, children went nude until adults i understand. So why be we prude in USA? ..Since the original civilization was dress or undress for the season, seems USA should be nude not prude. .. all very strange to me .... but maybe i am strange and all others normal.


Well, there were deliberate efforts on the part of the US Government to "Christianize" them, or otherwise force them to conform to "our" cultural norms. Given nearly 100 years under that kind of regime before it truly started to relent, it isn't surprising they've lost much of that non-concern regarding nudity. It had long since ceased being "normal" for even then. Even if that change happened for them at gun point.
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