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Is Naturism/nudism ok for me?
Mormondad Offline
#1 Posted : Saturday, May 13, 2017 11:22:19 PM(UTC)

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This topic can probably go into any of several topics here but I thought it best in this one. It has also been brought up and discussed to various degrees in various discussions. I however thought making it's own topic appropriate.

While many have discussed the pros and cons of nudity and many here advocate for a more open society where nudity is accepted or how they wished they could be nude more often. Many have reluctant spouses who they wish were more accepting. We have even had some who have explored and even ultimately for one reason or other backed off from naturism/nudism. In this discussion I will make no attempt to convince or disprove anyone from endorsing, accepting, adopting or rejecting the concept or practice of naturism/nudism. I only wish to discuss the process of coming to ones own decision and course. I will use my own experience to illustrate this, not saying in any manner that I did it right or am an example to follow.


In my personal journey into the world of naturism I come from a background completely at odds with the notion of being nude outside of one’s own bedroom, bathroom or locker room. Even the concept of skinny dipping single gender had negative connotations. I came face to face with the concept of naturism when making some changes in my personal and family life, which I won't go into here. Suffice it to say I had to evaluate whether nudity was acceptable before God or not.

In the process I read from various sources and websites. Whether I was guided to specific sites or otherwise I will leave to the readers interpretation. I will say that many sites were easily found on web searches which in more recent searches have brought up primarily pornographic sites. I found several helpful sites and considering I hadn't even heard the term Naturist prior I never searched under that term. Most helpful was the now defunct site, LDSSD Connections and the earlier version of this site.

With the information in hand I was still perplexed with the idea of nudity in mixed gender situations. It went totally against all that I had been taught growing up. I did search through scriptural references and prophetic and apostolic utterances for some kind of guidance, but only found silence on the matter. The only scriptural citations on nudity seemed to imply a neutral or tolerance of nudity. The only thing even close to denunciation was when talking of activities done when nude and in all honesty only denounced the action and not the nudity.

Left with this, I decided to follow James’ admonition (James 1:5) to ask Heavenly Father. I did so and what came to me was this: “Why are you asking me this, I don't care what you wear or don’t wear as long as your heart is right with me. If you want to be nude that is fine with me.”

Now in in my studying this out, I was talking it through with my wife. I will admit, because I was deployed with the Army I had more time and so I was studying and working through it much faster than she was. However I was discussing everything with her as I went. We were also working through some family and personal issues too. In the end I did not make the decision for my wife, I did not asked to accept my answer or to join me. What I did do was to ask her to study and pray for herself, which she did. She received an answer of her own and to my relief was the same as mine. I was glad to have her independently confirm I hadn't gone off on some perverted path. We then decided to bring it up with our children. That was an interesting experience. The older ones who were of a mind to do so were asked to study and pray for them selves. Two did and also got the same confirmation, again much to my relief. The younger ones just accepted the change at home.

This is my experience and answer. I only suggest the process as an example for others to follow. That being to study it out, ponder and pray about it. A couple of crucial points here that can be forgotten or not completely applied. First you must come to a decision. I have found that Heavenly Father can be quite literal in his answers. Ask Him a general question and you will get a general answer, ask him specifics and He will give you specifics. Thus you need to make some kind of choice and ask specifically about it. Asking what should I do will not get any real guidance. Second, keep an open mind. Many have already made up Heavenly Father’s mind up before even asking Him. If you just know it is evil before you ask but agree to go through the process because that is what you are supposed to do, why should anyone be surprised to hear your answer os it is evil? Keeping an open mind does not imply accepting or rejecting any course of action. You may not at the moment agree or disagree with the particular point but you can still be open to Heavenly guidance.

I also believe it is important to accept that we do not “know all things” or have all the answers, nor do we always have a good understanding of what the prophets and apostles have said. In spite of what we think.

Prophets and Apostles from the beginning have encourage all to use this pattern when seeking knowledge, understanding and guidance. There are those who have used it in some aspects but not others. There is no limitations as to when and for what we are to use this pattern but rather told to do so for all things. By this pattern we can find out the truth of all things and not what man says they are.

Now I can assure you from my own experiences that this pattern works and you will get an answer if follow correctly. I will also caution you to not apply your answer to anyone but yourself. Because you do not have stewardship over anyone else but yourself, you cannot say what they should or should not do. Granted a Bishop can get guidance for his ward in topics appropriate to his stewardship as can a Stake President. But only the Prophet can speak to the church as a whole. Considering that to date no prophet has spoken out one way or other about naturism you cannot imply it is either good or bad. So the principle here is to only apply your answer to yourself. Just as I had my wife and then my kids follow the pattern for themselves and I did not dictate to them what they should or should not do, we must not answer for others or make our answers apply to others. Granted as a father I can ask and get confirmation as to whether I should allow nudity in my home, but it is still up to each individual as to whether they individually will live nude or not.

I encourage all to apply this pattern to finding out about nudity (or any topic in which you desire to learn truth.) if they haven't yet done so. For those who are married I encourage an open discussion with your spouse on the matter and then both jointly and individually study, ponder and pray for your own answer. While there still can be obstacles of culture, up bringing and such, I have found this process in a loving and trusting relationship to be the best approach. Should your spouse come up with a different answer than you do, don't despair or argue the differences. While it may be ok for you it may not be right for your spouse, or your spouse may not be ready for it right now, perhaps never will.

"Modesty died when clothes were born."
---Mark Twain
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Ddoger Offline
#2 Posted : Monday, May 15, 2017 1:33:38 PM(UTC)
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Except for the bit about being in the military, if my kids had read this, they could have said "Dad wrote this." DW was VERY skeptical about my travels down this slippery slope to hell. She had an uncle who had left the church, gotten into a hippy love commune and became a nudist. After much personal study, with "real intent" she could see how virtuous, lovely, of good report and praiseworthy true naturism is. She also witnessed how my relationship to Christ changed me for the better and how my pharasitical arrogant behaviors seemed to disappear.

My kids were a bit older than yours and I took each of them aside (including their spouses) and talked about how embracing naturism, changing my heart and being a better disciple of Christ made our marriage so much better. It had made me a better father and much more devoted to my relationship with God. Each of them has embraced naturism to some degree or at least an open home environment and have seen the blessings in their own families.

While visiting another unit, DW and I recently taught an extended lesson on combating pornography in our homes. This also included the youth 12 and up. I discussed my material extensively with the Branch president and he was in support of the direction we were going to take. He originally wanted me to speak on porn in sacrament and I asked him if we could use his PH/RS 5th sunday instead. I don't think Porn is a good subject for sacrament meetings. I made it very clear that we were not proclaiming church policy or representing anyone else than ourselves. We used some of the material from "mychainsaregone.com", the church website and personal experience. We talked about open door policies, we talked about porn rates in church areas, We talked about both prudery and pornograpy being used to sexually exploit and demean the physical body and cause a misconstrued idea of what sexuality and the body are for. We talked about body shame, We talked about modesty being about "It's not what you wear but why you wear it". We talked about nudity in culture and how it was socially acceptable in some places and not others. I even used Bryan Saturday's mission experience of the branch picnic at the beach. We talked about influences of Victorian and puritans on US and Canadian society. We did not advocate naturism or declare our opinions on it.

I was totally amazed at how well our presentation was received. I asked if I could go 10 more minutes over time and was encouraged to do so. Much mingling and discussion was had after. I felt really good about how well it went and even DW said "that went really well, you did a good job". That is extremely high praise from my wife. She rarely comments on my talks and presentations.

I'm grateful for the understanding of the plan of salvation, my testimony of Heavenly Father and in His Son and how only through Christ's Grace, the enabling power of the atonement, have I been able to change and be a happier more confident person, a better husband and father and a more aredent follower of Christ. I owe much of this to my embracing naturism. It was so radical that it caused me to question many things, but that is for another post. :)

Ddoger
“Men are disturbed not by things but by the views which they take of them”. Epictetus
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LazerusLong Offline
#3 Posted : Monday, May 15, 2017 4:42:02 PM(UTC)

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Ddoger wrote:
../While visiting another unit, DW and I recently taught an extended lesson on combating pornography in our homes. This also included the youth 12 and up. I discussed my material extensively with the Branch president and he was in support of the direction we were going to take. He originally wanted me to speak on porn in sacrament and I asked him if we could use his PH/RS 5th sunday instead. I don't think Porn is a good subject for sacrament meetings. I made it very clear that we were not proclaiming church policy or representing anyone else than ourselves. We used some of the material from "mychainsaregone.com", the church website and personal experience. We talked about open door policies, we talked about porn rates in church areas, We talked about both prudery and pornograpy being used to sexually exploit and demean the physical body and cause a misconstrued idea of what sexuality and the body are for. We talked about body shame, We talked about modesty being about "It's not what you wear but why you wear it". We talked about nudity in culture and how it was socially acceptable in some places and not others. I even used Bryan Saturday's mission experience of the branch picnic at the beach. We talked about influences of Victorian and puritans on US and Canadian society. We did not advocate naturism or declare our opinions on it...
Ddoger


Do you have notes, or outline, or text of this presentation? I would love to read it. It think it could be a valuable resource. Please share it.
The ways of God, government, & girls are all mysterious & it is not given to mortal man to understand them. - LazarusLong
Frontiersman Offline
#4 Posted : Tuesday, May 16, 2017 10:19:15 AM(UTC)

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Ddoger wrote:
We talked about nudity in culture and how it was socially acceptable in some places and not others. I even used Bryan Saturday's mission experience of the branch picnic at the beach.

Does anyone know if this is available somewhere? Is there an archive somewhere I could read Bryan_Saturdays post? I've been on the forum since version one, but I don't recall that story.
De oppresso liber
Ddoger Offline
#5 Posted : Tuesday, May 16, 2017 2:19:51 PM(UTC)
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I'm not sure if Bryan's comments are from the old site or if he told me them personally. I think they are on the old site.

I will give some thought to sharing my talking points on my presentation. As positive as the experience was, I was a little reticent about sharing what I did here.


Cheers
“Men are disturbed not by things but by the views which they take of them”. Epictetus
Mr Moonella Offline
#6 Posted : Tuesday, May 16, 2017 4:09:50 PM(UTC)

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Bryan's story of the branch beach party has been told several times. He tells it in this thread https://web.archive.org/...0/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=53
DS Offline
#7 Posted : Wednesday, May 17, 2017 9:47:13 AM(UTC)
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Ddoger wrote:
I will give some thought to sharing my talking points on my presentation. As positive as the experience was, I was a little reticent about sharing what I did here.


@Ddoger -- If you are open to it, and were it possible, I would sincerely request that you share those notes here. I would greatly appreciate any help on pulling together my thoughts on the issue, as in the near future I will be broaching the subject with my wife (a discussion for a different thread). I'm interested in both the content, as well as any references you may include.
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